Burly Girlies - Rae, Morgan & Spencer

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What's New 802? I'm Becca Hammond and you're listening to Vermont Talks. Vermont Talks may include graphic or explicit content. Listener discretion is advised. It is April 19th. I am here today with Burly Girlies at Big Heavy World in Burlington. Burly Girlies is a feminist punk band from Vermont. They write songs based on their experiences as queer small town weirdos taking up space in the 21st century patriarchy. PussyPee is out on April 26th. Much awaited. And I'm here today with Morgan Rae and Spencer. Welcome everybody. Hi. Hi. I'm super excited to have you here today. I got to have a sneak peek of PussyPee earlier today. I love to hear people say it. Yeah, it's so fun. It is. It's a great name. And it's a it's great. Like I'm hugely impressed. I've listened to all sorts of different things out of the bands around town. And I don't know what I was expecting. A lot of EPs are kind of like raw. That was very, very solidly done. It feels very polished. Thank you. Congrats. We had a lot of really awesome people helping us work on it and recording it. Spencer recorded the whole freaking thing. Yeah. And River Heartley of Spicy World Studio in town mixed it, mastered it for us. So yeah. So where did you record it? Was it in your normal practice space? No. So my dad and I converted the part of the basement into a studio like a summer or two ago just because... In Spencer's house. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my parents. But yeah, we just turned it in there and I went to school for engineering, audio engineering. So I kind of was like, here's the things that would make it a great studio. And the dads like, well, I actually know how to build stuff. So here's what we'll actually do. That's what we ended up doing. So shout out to my dad. Yeah. Shout out to dad. Yeah. Yeah. Spencer's parents rock. They're like the adoptive like Burley Gurley's parents. Yeah. Spencer's parents rock. I tend to do that at any time I join the scene or a band. It's like everybody's like, oh yeah, your parents really coming to the show. Yeah. Good people that. Yeah. Yeah. Adam from Blossom. They still remember my parents from like a decade ago in the metal scene. Yeah. I've heard references to Blossom about six times in different shows. I forget who we're going to go on a tangent. Who was in Blossom? Adam, Kristen, Grace, and I'm Andrea. Yeah. Kristen is in the path as well, which is probably... Okay. Yes. That's probably where we talked about it. Adam's in the Bubs. Yeah. Which I think the Bubs are one of the greatest bands ever. I love the Bubs so much. Yeah. Blossom. Blossom is one of the greatest bands ever. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah, they were all cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Okay. But back to you guys because I will go on tangents. Okay. All day. Let's actually talk about... Yes. So let's go back to the dawn of time. When did Burley Girlies become a thing? Did it have previous entities or did it instantly become Burley Girlies? Oh, that's a good question. Well, Burley Girlies was first just me and Morgan making songs in like our rooms and not really knowing what we were doing. But I wanted to start a band and I just told Morgan that she should do it with me. And we didn't... I have some musical background. I learned how to play drums as like a child and I played ukulele in college and performed a bit. Ukulele girl. Yeah. Back it was the time where that was a thing. And so I really enjoyed performing and then when I graduated from college, I moved to Burlington and I didn't end up like doing another perform... I didn't like fill the void that performing all throughout like high school and college had left until later on I was like really depressed and like not as confident as I typically am. And I discovered in therapy that I needed some sort of performance like outlet. And so I chose... I had always wanted to start a band but I guess I just didn't really like see it as a possibility. And then I got really into like the right girl movement in the 90s and started listening to Bikini Kill and like Mommy Long Legs and Daisy and the Scouts and stuff. And I... Yeah, that's what I just told Morgan. Like we're gonna... We're just gonna do this now. And so it started off with just me and her and then Emmett joined later on drums and then like two years or one or two years into it Spencer joined because she like accosted us outside of our show. She was like, y'all rock. I can make this so much better. Yeah. She did. I mean, yeah, I accidentally went to a show because Emmett was best... My roommate was my best friend's roommate. Emmett was my best friend's roommate. Got there. And I saw him loading drums into a venue like Emmett, what are you doing? You're like, I'm playing a show. I'm like, oh, hey Josh, I know what we're doing tonight. And so we went to the show and I was blown away by it. And I was like, oh my god, I need to be a part of this. Yeah. I really, yeah. Some of the best friends who just decide, hey, we are now friends. Yeah. But it just... Yeah, I just remember being like, this is what I loved about it. This is super great. I would love to even just talk about music with you and yeah. Yeah. It took them forever to listen to any of the things that I did. I learned all the songs, all the parts, and then I recorded the parts that I'm actually pretty much playing now. They didn't change that much from that and was like, hey, what do you think? And then it was radio silence for like six months. Yeah. I truly don't remember that. I'm sorry. But happy it worked out. Yeah, I just remember being like, I don't want to push it. Maybe they hate it. That's so funny. The way that it was probably just like... We were like, no, yeah, this is important. We will listen to this tonight. On Medicaid and ADHD people with like full-time jobs. I don't know. Six months goes really quick when you're busy. And I'll be like, I'm going to get to that tomorrow and then it just happens six months later. And sometimes that's just the way she goes. But it clearly worked out and things are clearly going well. So the fact that you brought up Bikini Kill, when I listened to the EP, I was like, Kathleen Hannah would be so proud. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Scorpio Queen, we love her. Just beautiful. I love punk in general, especially classic original old school punk. And it checked all the books. I was really happy about it. So let's talk a little bit. If you want to talk about the EP. Yeah. Let's talk about the songs. Where did this come from? Are they songs? Is this your first official release? So is this from the beginning of time to current? Well, our first official release was Horror for Horror in 2022. And then, so like, yes, in my mind, yes, because we started, like all of these songs that are on the EP are like the songs that me and Ray wrote like in like her basement, like during the pandemic, like without a drummer, not all of them, but like a lot of them. It's like we think of our band as like different eras. And this is definitely an EP from like the first era. And we've definitely like moved on stylistically from then. But these are all songs that we still play, for the most part, we play pretty often. And yeah, but it's like our first era. So we kind of backtrack. But also like they're very different than when we originally wrote them because of Spencer joining and like making it feels like they are our first era and like our old music. But it's also like a very new approach to it because of what Spencer's done for it with lead guitar. Yeah. And like helping me with my bass parts and stuff and just like, I don't know, little things like that. And also just like when you have taken so much time with songs and just like, I don't know, playing them the same way for years gets boring. So it was really cool to like have them above with us. No, they sound that's it. They don't sound thrown together by any means. It sounds like you've spent a really long time cleaning them up and just making them which in years, stuff you miss that. But it's, it's a really hard line to toe, right? Because if you put too much into it, it's not punk anymore, it becomes like Pong Rock or something. Yeah, like you just start falling into different genres, but it's solid. And part of that, you know, you just set some rules for yourself with what's allowed and what not. But also like, I will say I like try everything. I never, I try and foster that too. Like Aurora, if when you, I don't know, is this coming up? Is this coming up before the EP or after the EP? It doesn't matter. You can talk about this. Okay. All right. Just making sure. Like there's backup harmonies in Aurora that just like were because we had extra time and Morgan was like, can I try something? Yeah. You know, and it completely changed the whole vibe of the song. Like it's worth just trying everything. And you know, we're in my basement. Yeah, it just, we have so much freedom. Like, I don't know. Like also in Aurora, I, that there's a little, we synthy, they made like kind of made it crazier sounding, but there's that's that's an accordion that I had that we recorded that little lead line in the back. The punk rock accordion. That is so punk accordion. That is so, that is so punk. For real. It just made me giggle the whole time. Imagine being an accordion player in a punk band. That is so punk. It's folk punk. Yeah. Yeah, true. Yeah. It doesn't have to be though. That's more. Yeah. No, no, it doesn't have to, but yeah, it was really hard not to giggle while I was doing that because it was, you know, I had the microphone right in front of my face and I was like, every time. Yeah, there's no like plug in. They don't make electric accordions, do they? They make them, but like it's essentially just a microphone in the accordion. Like it's, it's, it's still a microphone. I need to see what an electric accordion looks like. That's yeah, we get a feature memoir. I think go down that whole rabbit hole. Okay. If anyone's an electric accordion player, hit us up. So the electric accordion features. So other songs that we want to talk about off the EP, maybe you don't have to. Well, picks is the, we released it as a single first, and that's going to be on the EP. And that is the first song that I ever wrote for Burley Girlies. And I had written songs before, but they're all very like indie, girly, like cute, too clearly girl. Yeah. And, and I've had written some guitar songs too, but very like acoustic, like singer, songwriter. And so picks was the first, my first attempt at writing a punk song. And all of the lyrics were inspired by real things that men have said to me on the internet on Instagram. So I need to go back and re-list it. Just, just watch the lyric video they threw together. It's really good. You'll get a good handle of what that was like. It's really good. It really paints a picture for what it is to be a woman online. Yep. I can just imagine some of the things. I've also experienced some of these things. Yeah. Yeah. People feel really empowered, especially to be creepy when they're like offering you money. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, like a lot of the, that experience was very much like, like this person saying stuff like, oh yeah, like, like porn hub is unethical. And so I try to, I try to get ethically sourced porn by, by reaching out to people on Instagram that I think are hot. Interesting. It's an interesting, um, yeah. The moral justification. Yeah. It's like, that is good to do. And then what you decided to do with that quote unquote moral that you have is just proves that that's not forcing yourself into somebody onto somebody basically, you know, rather than going to an actress and be like, can I pay for, yeah, that's the thing. I had never at any point marketed myself online as someone who would sell pictures of my body. You're a woman. You do porn, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like the idea too. What's the price? Yeah, literally. Yeah. How much? The idea too, that like if I'm giving it away for free to someone else that I might as well get paid for it is like one of the other like mentalities of people like that. Oh, I love it here. How many songs is it? See, I listened to the entire YouTube link that you sent me. Yeah. But I didn't watch the whole thing. Now I'm wondering if I should have sent and watched the whole thing go by. Yeah. It's six songs, which is like, like, I think the longest EP you can do. But like once you get to seven, it's like a short album. Right. But yeah, it's arbitrary lines. I know, right? Well, it was 15 minutes though. That's very solid EP territory. Yeah. Yeah. Cause some of the songs are really crazy that it's only 15 minutes. I know. We spent so long on that. Yeah. I know. That's something that I say to myself every time I'm recording or doing music and finally have something to show somebody. They're just like, I'm just like, and they just go, that's cool. I'm like, you have no idea the time I put it in. And that's what I get. Yeah. Tell me why it's only cool. This has been my entire life for the past several months. But thank you for thinking it's cool. This is my child. How could you be so dismissive? It feels like, yeah. It's super solid though. I don't want to degrade it anyway. It is 15 minutes, but it was like a solid 15 minutes of punk. Exactly. Yeah. It is a sonic piece of art. Yeah. You can listen to it on your commute, most likely. Yeah. And then listen to it again on your way back. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. So tell me more about the band. Where do you play? Who do you play with? How often do you play? We play with Blossom. Yes. Hi Blossom. We play with you. One more about some people. We play around. Well, our next show is at Higher Ground. Yes. Our next show is at Higher Ground. It's our next FemFast. We have a bi-annual like punk shows that we put together at Higher Ground. And this next one coming up on May 9th, it's prom themed. So it's a punk prom. Oh yeah. Yeah. I've seen the ads for this. Cool. Cool. Yeah. And so that's going to be awesome. Yeah. We also play at Despecido fairly often and Radio Bean. Yeah. Radio Bean is a favorite of mine. Yeah. The vibes. Yeah. Those are the main ones. We've been trying to get out more outside of... Basement shows too. Yeah. We play Basements too. Basements are kind of where our love and heart are. Yeah. That was the first show I played was on Isham Street. Yeah. Yeah. With Dick Richard. Yeah. We just finished covering a song by this other band, Dick Richard, who we're good friends with that we've played with them in their basement before. Yeah. I really like their name. I haven't heard of them. They're goofy silly little boys, but they are probably... I don't know if they're going to continue playing because they've graduated from UVM. So... Yeah. There's been so many good bands that just kind of disband. I know. Because they're loud. That's what I feel like. Like we're fortunate. Like we started the band after all of us were out of college. Uh-huh. And so we had kind of planned our roots here so we can stay together for longer. Yeah. Just very important. And forever and ever actually. Yeah. We'll never break up ever. Forever. And we'll also never die. So. Yeah. And everything will work out. Yeah. I believe it. I have faith. Did I see something about a zine at some point? Yeah. Tell me about that. I was so enthralled, but I figured I would wait and let you talk about it. Well, we... Okay. So that's kind of like part of our origin story, I guess, is like... It is. Yeah. Originally, I had the idea to start a zine because Ray wasn't darkening me into a girl. So I came up with really girlies because it's adorable. And then Ray was like, well, you know, people who make scenes, they usually get part of a band and they promote their band. And like, you know, Catherine Hannah did it because she was in a band, band, band, band. And I was like, okay. And then so... But we did start as a zine. And then we kind of worked backwards, I guess. Yeah. And then we made a zine like probably two years ago. When we had just started. Actually, we, I think we like sold it at our first show, our first like actual show. We, well, our first kind of show, we did like a soft launch in my basement where it was just us. We played for 20 minutes and we put it on Instagram and invited people to my house in Essex. I was terrified. And like a few strangers came and that's how we became friends with the creatures. I was so terrified. They were some of the only people that came. It was a Tuesday night because that was the only night that I met head off and people still came. And I was so, I have never been more scared. Yeah. That's not true actually, Monkey House, because there was a stage that's like raised. I remember like this, the fact that there's a stage being raised. I was horrible stage fright. But after our soft launch show, we had played at Pride, at People's Pride that summer. And that was our first show in front of like a bigger crowd and we sold our zine there. So debuted there. Yeah. So, and now we don't even like really print it anymore. We've made a new zine. We just haven't put it out yet, but our second zine is all about how to start a band. And we wrote like a bunch of tips and stuff about what to do. And Spencer wrote a lot of stuff about how to play music. And it was so, so helpful. Like Morgan and I are reading it and learning. No, literally. I was reading and being like, oh, that's what that is. Yeah. Like it took us so long to figure out that this is going to expose us. But this is how like not musically tell. Yeah. This is why we're so charming. But we like, it took us like probably like over a year to figure out that like the strings on the bass were tuned the same. And that Morgan could play the same thing I was playing if she just looked at like where my fingers were. I didn't know what a cab was. And I didn't know what like a bass head was. And I didn't know what the difference between like a cab ahead and like an amp, like a combo amp. Yeah. I didn't know what backline was. There are probably other words I still don't know. Yeah. So we put a, we put an index of words that you will hear in our how to start a band scene so that people don't feel so lost. Yeah, you really don't. I truly didn't know anything. And I didn't play an instrument before I started the band. And I didn't know anything. I mean, you really, the music theory helps you to make stuff quicker and you can identify stuff. But like realistically, as long as you don't have to make a power chord and have to do your guitar, that's all you need for punk, Raj, and even most metal. Like, yeah, I would honestly argue the message and the meaning and the reasoning behind forming the band. Yeah. If there's a good reason to do that, you can learn all the rest. That's pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Like this is such a pure, beautiful idea. I love Riot Girl too. And just like the whole punk scene and of itself and Kathleen Hannah and everything. So watching you guys from afar, because I'm just learning about all this now is so empowering and like, I don't know, it gives you the warm fuzzy to hear about this kind of thing. So I have no towards people who are learning to make the dream come true. I hope it is empowering to hear how little we know. Seriously, and like for a while, I like really was really hard on myself for not knowing a lot. But now it's like, I want it. Well, we did some lessons here. Yeah, thank God. First of all, thank God Spencer did actually teach me some stuff. But I don't know, like, when I think about punk and like Riot Girl, it's like, I kind of want it to be bad. Like, I want it to be messy and kind of gross. And I want like tones to be off and I want people to be playing the rock notes. If the heart and like the message and the emotion is there, I don't really care what you're playing. To be honest. I mean, that's like a whole thing with the one we were recording was I was just trying to get us to get the best takes. I didn't necessarily care if it was the most perfect take, right? I felt like it was the best take. Yeah, like that's a huge thing, especially with drums, like that's such a huge thing. Like a little bit of mess in the drum sounds awesome. Yeah, so like human and like in a world where like, you know, there are like drum machines and there's don't get me started. Everyone there will always be someone who's better at like being technical player than you. So just just kind of give up. I don't know. Makes sense. Give up and give surrender to it and just have fun. Let go and let God. Especially like just like playing just like if your song speeds up and you always it feels good to do that, like do that like our live shows. Like if all of us are super tight, but if you go back and listen to it, it's just like this ebb and flow and ebb and flow and it feels great. But it is like I will look at that. I'm like, we can't keep time. We can just keep with each other. But you know, right? It feels like sometimes it's like, it feels, it sounds great. It's so good. Yeah. And it's also just like, did we have fun? Did they have fun? Cool. Yeah. You know, right? I think you lose that if you try and play with a click track, which a lot of bands, they split apart and they click track, I will say record very cleanly and it doesn't sound anything like they play in reality. Yeah. Well, the EP we didn't actually end up recording it all together. We did. Emmett and I tracked the drums together. Like I just played guitar and would be like, chorus, you know, because we just couldn't sync up a time with Emmett's crazy work schedule and like Ray's, you know, we just like, and Morgan's, it's like, ah, I'm in and I got this, we can do this. We did track Aurora and 14 with Ray, but like everything else, we did track separately, but it was like, I was, it did impressed upon Emmett. It's like, you are going to set the tone of this whole record. So we're going to take this extra time. Yeah. And he killed it every time I hear it. It's just like, oh, yeah. But to, to, with the click track thing, I will say like, you know, there's, I do a lot of, like, I don't, I'm in a band with a friend that I'm the drummer and he doesn't, he's the singer. So I'm doing a lot of the instruments and he's doing singing. So I kind of, you have to play to a click track, like one man. Yeah. If it's just one person. Yeah. That everything. Right. Oh my God. Just let it, just if you listen to my drums that I recorded to a click track with it, it sounds bad, but if you listen to the drums without it, sounds great. It's like burly girl. You try and lock it in. It doesn't have the same feeling as just letting what feels natural to happen happen. Yeah. I don't know. No, very, very, it feels real. That's the thing. I, we're talking about like the, the perfect instrumentals or perfect, whatever. Everything's so commercialized. Like everything on the radio is so painfully over processed and perfect. It's so perfect. Right. To the point where we're getting, you get like confused, someone who's never been exposed to real art and real music. It's like, like this is different. It's not overly commercialized. And it's really weird because there's people who can't cross that boundary, but it doesn't feel like real music to me. It feels fake crap. Pedaled to the masses. Yeah. It is. Like, I mean, you can just tell one, like, I mean, with music like that or you can just tell when it's like a cash grab or just like, you know, for money. Right. Yeah. Followers or whatever. Right. And it's every genre of music now. That's the thing. It's not just the pop stars anymore. It's like, Oh, these guys are alternative rock. And it's like, so the same, like poor offspring, I'm going to pick on offspring, but fuck the offspring. What the fuck? You guys play the same three exact chords and your hit songs hit the chorus at the exact same second. It's just once you get to that level, if you let the producers go in, it's like they have a formula. I just remember, I don't know if anybody knows who Devin Townsend is, but he was one of my favorite artists and he went and like, like a metal artist that went and worked with a bunch of pop people and he made an entire album. He's like, I hate this. And he just deleted the whole thing and we put it out. They were like writing like types of music based on like the weather that was going to be when we put it out and like what time of year it was coming out. And I was just like, nah, it's like, we're crazy. Like how far are you? They plan that stuff out. Right. Right. Well, it's the money making machine. Because it's not like how do I support the message of the song? It's how do I reach the most people to get the most money? Right. At the point of making music, for most normal people, is not to just make money off of it. That is our point. Buy or merge. Buy or merge though. I just don't want to have to work. I just want to make music. All right. I don't need to make a ton just enough. Actually go back on that. So definitely, yeah, follow us. Now, 100% buy the merge. Support local artists. But that's it. I don't ever expect. I mean, I wish Burlington was big enough, but if you just get big in Burlington, you're probably not going to be a multimillionaire. But if you could just survive and pay rent, that'd be pretty fucking sweet for most people. Somebody pay all of our rents. Do you sell pegs? There's always not as a plan B. If you're consenting. Right. Exactly. If you're advertising, send services. I literally could never. Sex workers work so hard. They are so good at their jobs and they're fucking hard workers, and I am not. When there was a big movement of people getting into only fans and stuff, like regular people who weren't into sex work before, I remember being curious about it. As soon as I learned, you have to actually talk to these men and message them and pretend that you're really into it so that they can buy your product or whatever. I'm like, I just, I don't. You gotta put your customer service face on. Oh my God. Hello, sir. That's what AI should be used for. Apparently. This is so funny. I've just read something about this. Yeah, like a week or two ago, these men are suing only fans because they thought they were talking to the women who they were paying, but they were actually talking to random dudes in East Bangladesh who were being paid. Oh yeah. That's insane. They're feelings got hurt. Pretty girl wasn't talking to me. But I paid for pretty girl to talk to me. Because these women have like millions of followers and they think that they talk to her. But I'm special. Damn it. Wow. Yeah. Anywho, no disrespect to these people. If you want to do that, I am mad at you. No, go and get your porn. You do what you gotta do, King. Ethically. Exactly. If you can, Kings, Queens, royalty. Don't message random fucking people right now. And ask them how much. Start there, you know. The bar is like on the ground. Yeah, for real, because it's so fucked up. Because every woman I know has stories like that. They're like, yeah, you won't believe. Look at this. Yeah, it didn't take long to my transition to start getting those stories. Yeah. It's like, oh cool. I'm just gonna make my Instagram private. That's all right. Yeah, that's exactly what I did too. I like I deleted my Instagram for a long time. But yeah, yeah. All right, cool. We talked about pics. What's the next? Yeah. Right, like this is why this band is important though. Like this, this conversation is exactly why it's good that you guys exist because what the fuck. We should be able to talk about this because I think so many people don't quite realize how insane it is to just exist in this fucking world. That's honestly the thing too about a lot of the songs. Like we've had men come up to us or talk to us about them that's like, or at least in my experience, where they say that they didn't realize what we go through. And that's why it's so cool that our shows at this point now, we've been playing pretty for quite a while now and our shows, we're starting to recognize a lot of the same people who come out and it's like we've built our own little community of gay people and queer people and women and trans people. And so when you come to a Berlin Curly show, if you're a cis man, like you're kind of in the minority, which is kind of cool because like women are so used to being the minority at every other like punk or hardcore show in Burlington and all over the world. Okay, that last show we did in Middlebury, we had a fem presenting person come up and be like, this is the first time I've ever gotten them off. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so like, it's so important for them to, for like these men to come, I like it when they come anyway, like knowing too that they might be a little uncomfortable or might like get the experience that we have at all of the other shows in town. But also like, it's so important for like allies to hear like our stories. Like it's the reason why like, like white people should go out of their way to like listen to Black artists and like people of color because they'll write songs about their experiences that like, you won't even realize like I have the same aha moments when I listen to artists who have identities that are different from mine. And so I like it when men come to our shows and have that same experience. Totally. Yeah. It's definitely a hard, hard conversation to start with certain people because I wish men who didn't want to go to these shows would go to these shows and learn something. Exactly, if they're going to be decent about it, because it's never the person who's like open to these things. Who really needs to fucking hear it. The next thing I just think last tour, when we did the New Jersey, or no, anyways, that one show was squelched at that one place where the guy was like, thank you. Yeah, where Bex, the singer, was like, okay, calm down. There's one person just going absolutely. There's like a crowd killer situation. Yeah, and like, you know, they gently just were like, hey, okay dude, let's let the... Let's set this one out. Yeah, let's set this out. This isn't for you. It's for the queers and the fems and fems. It didn't matter. We had the conversation. A gentle, nice way about it, one band later doing the same thing. A whole, yeah. Oh my God, and that turned into a whole ordeal where they were like waiting outside still for... Yeah. Like that. People are fucking nuts. A lot of that's kind of calmed down, I think. Back in the day when I graduated high school in 2011, so back in that era, the fucking windmilling douchebags were so common, and they would just sit there throwing haymakers. Don't even guess. And it's like, well, I better not get near you because I'm going to fucking die. Yeah. You're kind of an asshole, but that... And they're like, I'm just vibing. It's like, why is it only dudes who are sitting here punching angrily just hoping someone walks into their fucking play? That's what our song Wash Pit is about. Wait, that's not what Wash Pit is about. That is what Wash Pit is about. Yeah, like, well, our song Wash Pit is like about going to hardcore shows like in Burlington where we felt like, I have this dilemma with it where I feel like we have our own little community, and when I go to hardcore shows here, I feel like I'm a guest in their community, which is fine. Like, I don't necessarily, like, I feel like I have my own little space, and then I will go and witness theirs. And so there are things that are very normal at those shows, like the way that they behave in Wash Pits that feel very unsafe and not for me. And I had this mentality before that was like, this is like wrong. Like, I don't like that. Like, it's very normal to be actually injured at a show. But my perspective has changed a little bit where it's like, okay, like, this is, I guess, is an experience that people really value and actually really like, and that they expect when they go to these shows and there is ways for you to avoid it. And so I feel salty about it because I like to be close to the band and I like to be in the Wash Pit, but like, I will genuinely get my ribs bruised and like be in a lot of pain for a long time, whereas like, mashing at the shows that we have with bands that we have, like, those ones I, those ones are for me. Those ones I can participate in. Yeah, it's like more people, maybe like your size. Just need to have like a designated, okay, this is where people are going to get hurt and then that's the only spot this can happen. If I'm three rows behind the Wash Pit and I'm getting hurt, then I am, then I am salty. Like, if there's a Wash Pit there and then like you're aside from it and some dude next to you starts throwing arms, it's just like, come. Yeah. Walk. Walk two feet. Also like, yeah. I've seen more natural separation lately. It's been making me happy. I don't know if it's happening everywhere, but where the like three guys who are punching. Yeah. They like kind of group together and punch around each other and then the rest of the people are kind of just like, yeah, over here. You know what? That's a healthy compromise. You know, somewhere like Despacito and you know, this really tiny venue and these, you know, I went and saw the Path and Violet Crimes like last week and so last week doesn't matter. And like somebody just, you know, everybody started throwing elbows and I'm just like, I don't want to be that. I want to watch the bands. I'm not here. Oh God. You know, like, yeah. It's so small that there's not enough room to be. It's like, if you're going to do that, just be aware that like you have this, you know, four speed, four, yeah, four, what am I trying to say? Like four feet around you. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. It's pretty much the whole center in front of the band. That's all you, that's like, yeah, you got to mosh in less than that, you know. Right. Right. Which it's, I don't know, all the power to people, but. I just, I just love like, I don't know. Just don't intend to punch people in the face. With like, mosh bit. Who are down with being punched in the face. Yeah. You have the whole thing where, you know, in mosh bit where you like invite everybody up and I just, seeing like all the fems, fems and just smaller queer and people just actually having fun in a mosh bit for months. Yeah, that is really cool. Because I'll watch them the whole show before, like when we play with like, you know, like, when it's not like a burly girlie specifically, we put this together in queer bands or it's just like, oh, burly girlies are on the bill and they'll like be in the back and off to the side and then they don't necessarily even like show up, you know, for like those bands because they, I don't know, maybe they're just like worried about getting hurt because as soon as we play, they all come up. It's interesting. It's something about the energy. Yeah. It's just different. Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. It's something I've just noticed. I'm a big advocate for a bump around mosh bit. Yeah. Absolutely. That's what we usually introduce it as. If you want to jump around and do each other, then Burly Girlies is for you. If you want to punch people, go and see a different band. Or do it concentrally. Yeah. Okay. So I feel like the idea of like a fems punching each other to me. Hot. Yeah. I almost got into it. It's hot. So I think that maybe the like. Let's backtrack. Okay. So I'm going to punch. Is there double standard? Yes. And that's fine to me. Of I'm okay with. Femmes. Femmes feels safe enough to punch other femmes. Honestly, I'm like, I'm cool with fems and like gays, they's crowd killing. It's our time. That was really brave. I don't know. That was really brave. I think let's just switch it up. Let's just see what happens. Yeah. Let's see what, well, the thing, but half of the problem is just that like our bodies are smaller. Like, and like they, and a lot of times I feel like the most of my injuries from the pit have been just because a man used his normal amount of strength on me and it was enough to kill me. So yeah. Now I've been knocked flat on my ass by a six foot five guy who just punched me straight in the side of my head and I was like, Holy fuck. I haven't really been back in the punchy pit since that day because once that happens, you start doing this and then you do it right out of the pit. You're like, whoa, okay, too, too much. Swing around. I saw somebody get a foot in their mouth in a mosh pit recently and was like really hurt. It was that I was at, it was an Essex. I forgot what that there's a there's a venue in Essex that's putting on hardcore show. I was at the club a couple weeks. I went to another one after that, but yeah, it was a few weeks ago. Yeah. So I got real hurt. I was like, where is this place? Yeah, first Republic Brewing. Okay. It's a cool place. Cool. Well, that's too bad. Someone got kicked in the face. See, don't kick people in the face. They were like, they were windmilling their legs. I've seen a guy do that before. I've never seen a woman do it. Women should do that. But I have seen the dudes just like the it's kind of like a karate move, I think where they're like this leg that leg. Yeah, girls start acting up in the pit. A little more. Yeah, I don't know. Let's get a little freaky with it. Yeah. I think a lot of the kicking it waste level might start scourging. So those big platforms and go kick and you'll be good spin kicks. Yeah. Yeah. Where you're spiky, where leather. Demo. Where your demon is start taking up more space than you do. Yes. Lots of rings. And you'll be good. I love. I just inciting like in violence. I'm fine with that. That feels good to me. But you know, I like kicking and mosh pits. I think that would be a thing, but not in the face. Like don't within reason. Yeah. One of the most fun pits I was ever in was actually at like drop kit Murphys because everyone was like Irish dancing, kicking each other. Yeah. Which was actually really, really fun. I've been in a pit where it was like a jig pit where we were just like all in a line and like circling at this like folk metal show. Like, yeah, that stuff's so fun. And then like there's been a big thing with like rowing at shows now. Like people sit down and just start. I've seen that. Yeah. I don't know what's up with it, but I really like it. A video of some like people playing magic the gathering at a pit. I was like the best. Actually, I just remember there was a pit. There was a band. I got their name escapes me, but they brought a bunch of foam swords. Okay. That's fun. Yeah. Water guns in a pit. Jello. Jello wrestling in the pit. Well, that's going to make more slippery. Yeah. See all of these ideas are good. If it's only fems them. I don't know. Yeah. It gets out of hand. Barely girlies. You see the title of barely girlies men ruin everything. It sucks because some of them are cool, but yeah, I like all these ideas. Like this sounds like a great outdoor show. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of here for that like water gun pit to be honest. That'd be so fun. That would be fun. Make those like like$2 a little. Yeah. Water balloons. Yeah. You have to have a lot of water. I have to have a lot of them ready. I feel like our equipment will get soaked. Yes. You got to separate. Out of the fantasy. Stop being practical. See Jello balloons might be better. Oh, no. I wait. Hang on. So what you mean that like Jello wrestling Jello and then the bullet. And then it's Jello wrestling. Right. Exactly. Right. Combo. Now everyone picture in your mind with fems and thems. Yeah. Yeah. And our bathing suits. Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. Let's move on. Okay. Brief hiatus after the laughing and the giggles. See we're having too much fun. Yeah. Just drain the batteries. I honestly don't know what happened there, but it happened. What is that? Is it one of my batteries? Did I fling it over there? It's it. Don't worry about it. What is this battery? Okay. So did we cover. We've covered a few songs off of the EP. Plus. Plus. Plus. Plus. Plus. Anything else that we want to say about the PUS EP. Are you doing a release party on the 26th? Yeah. I think kind of, I guess fan fest is kind of. Yeah. With quasi P. Yeah. Femfest is like what a week and a half, two weeks later. It would just be way too close to do a show and then do Femfest. Yeah. It'll be fun to do it. I like I love doing like an EP party, EP release party, but I also like the idea of like giving people a couple of weeks to come to Femfest after and like maybe they know some of the words now and yeah. People already know the words for these songs. That's what's crazy. People in Middlebury were singing along. Yeah. Which is so cool. There's nothing to say to learn and sing along to these people are just coming to shows and yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited. And Picks came out what two weeks ago. Yeah. 3000 streams. Yeah. Cool. That's really cool. Nice. Yeah. Ash says that they did a thousand. Yeah. Should not repeat. But yeah, no release party. Hey. Femfest counts. Except Femfest I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Asterix, whatever. Yeah. It's hard to book shows. So yeah. All the all the venues I was gonna say like we you know most of them are busy to play at we're like not doing shows anymore. We're already planning Femfest and we're busy and. Well I just meant more like the whole insurance thing with like Monkey House. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's been very confusing. I don't fully understand because Monkey House is still playing some of these big bands that are definitely like. Big D in the Kids Table. Hardcore. It's as soon as it actually says punk or metal where they're just like nah or are specifically hardcore. They just it's. Everyone just has to be like we're a soft rock band. Yeah. I know. I'm gonna try and think like for like a death metal band is like you do experimental of Vunkart, ambient jazz, fusion rock band. Right. I got enough things buried in there to. Yeah. Technically. It just seems like such a weird like restrictive thing like we're just gonna silence bands through insurance of all fucking things like really the insurance man gets to decide who plays burling like in Burlington. That's kind of. Ridiculous. Yeah. I mean if it's about mashing like I've been to venues before where like mashing wasn't allowed and so I don't know I just feel like that there were I don't understand what what the like insurance companies like reasoning is behind like why can't it just be like you can have punk shows but have a no mashing policy like I get that's why I like. Or like just put up a sign that says mashing your own risk and then boom you're covered. Yeah or sign a waiver when you go to a hard core. Yeah. Sign a waiver. It's like a social contract that you sign when you go to hardcore shows like nobody is ever gonna sue the venue because I mean I don't know maybe they do maybe that's why. They do if they really get hurt because of a security oversight. But right. Which isn't really the same thing is going to punch it in the head. Yeah. No it's really not. No it bothers me a lot but that's it's just some like arbitrary thing on the genre and I feel like we could get around this. I've heard of people booking really random places. Someone's trying to play at the library. That's awesome. Oh my god. So that's like the DIY spirit that like that what the fuck is up Denny's. Yeah. Like that's just like a band who was like there was like a local Denny's that was closing and they were like can we play a show here. God we should start you know we should we should start reaching out to places like super fucking random. Right. I want to play at spare time. Right. Oh my god. So far. Wait what the hell. We could play. They have like this weird event space room upstairs. Or we could play in the arcade. Yeah. Just put a work down on and take up like two of the bowling lanes. That's what I was saying. That's also sick. That would be so sick. Right. Cool idea. You buy is playing at Old Spokes Home. Cool. I just I just listened to your episode with them and I listened to them and I really like them. I had never heard of them. They're pretty new. Yeah. They're they're a lot of fun though. If they have one song that the entire song it's they're not really punk but this one song is extremely punk and the entire song is just if the item doesn't scan it must be free. Wait. Okay. That's awesome. What's it called? It's called the Yabai Y A B A I and then there's a Yabai band because it means holy shit in Japanese so it's like a very common phrase. That is so good. Yeah. Love. Love. Love the fill of bitch Scott and bass players who I never really had a conversation with because even come on the show. Great guys though. Wonderful people. But any who old spokes home just wanted to throw that out there that may be other bands to play. It's the like used bike shop in the north end. Oh, we should do it at the rock climbing chip that my girlfriend in all the gay hot people go to. because everyone who climbs is gay and hot and hot. Yeah. And big space. Yeah, right. Yeah. That actually sounds like a perfect spot to do it now. Wait. OK, I'm going to reach out. Because there's no for real. No for real. I think this could be something. Really wide. OK, bowling alley. Yeah. Climbing gym in Essex. It's in Essex. Oh, well, there you go. Yeah. Represent. Yeah. Oh my god. I'm just picturing people climbing on the climbing walls as we're playing and they're like moshing. That'd be so fun. OK. That's amazing. Now, I love this. It's a new story in Starbuck. We're going to make it work. Other bands are going to listen to this too. I don't know if you tell them as well. That'd be so funny. OK, all right. So May 9th, Femme Fest. Yeah. Who else is playing with you at Femme Fest? Oh, I would love to talk about that. OK, so The Worst from Portland, Maine. They're a really cool band out there. They're like grungy, punk, Femme fronted. And then we've got Shy Godwin from Philly, who we're obsessed with. Obsessed. And they are like a grunge hardcore band. And we love them. And they are like Burlington, Vermont, people like this is your opportunity to see these bands before they blow up. Before Shy Godwin blows the fuck up, you need to come see Shy Godwin. And then Hissy Fitt, who are a UVM band of Femmes and queer people who are opening and really excited about them too. It's such a good lineup. Yeah. It's such a good lineup. Very solid. Cool. What time? So May 9th, what day of the week is it? It's a Friday. Friday. And what time is it? Thursday. 7.30. Oh, look at cool. No, I'm writing this down for me. Because I'm 7. Yeah. But everyone else should. And there's going to be a photographer and a backdrop there so you can get your prom photos taken. It is a theme, costume party. The idea of it all was to be able to go to prom, to go to a queer friendly, freak friendly space where you can dress at prom. And a lot of people weren't able to dress in the expression that they are. Yeah, I went to prom to suit it rather not. Right. And so now you have an opportunity to have a redo. I'm getting a dress custom made for me by this artist called My World. And I'm really excited. Is that local? I haven't heard of My World. Yes. Cool. It's shop.myworld on Instagram. And a very cool person. Yeah. It's hard to find dresses that feel affirming to me. But I love dresses. But I also used to be a pageant girl and I'm very traumatized by that experience. And so I sent the idea and pictures of Courtney Love and Avril Lavigne and the 2000s. And I wanted something that was both feminine and like 70% feminine, 30% masculine. And still a dress but also punk. And they designed something really awesome. And I'm so excited. It's going to feel so good. That's awesome. Very cool. This sounds awesome. Yeah, some inspo for the listener. Carrie. Yeah, think Carrie. Think Carrie. Think Courtney Love. Think Avril Lavigne with the tie. Vibes. Yes. What else? And wear whatever makes you comfortable. You don't have to dress up fully if you don't want to. But it'll be it's a fun. But themes are fun and I love themes. Yeah. So, you know. So do it. Like it's a fun challenge at whatever level you want to do that at. Yeah. Prom. All right. Just make sure you can dance on it. Yeah. Do some bouncing. Mosh on it. We're going to do a wall dip. Also, but imagine. OK, imagine wearing someone's wearing a prom dress though. And they start and it gets all fucked up and they're ripping it and they came in and their hair was all done up and then it gets all fucked and they're like makeup is smudge. So, you know, that's the vibe. It doesn't have to stay. Perfect. That's kind of a vibe. You know, it's like, I don't know, whatever. I don't need to elaborate further. We've learned a lot about Morgan. I'm sorry. I've been going. Yeah. I'm going too deep on things that don't matter. But that's fine. I think this prom sounds like it's very important. And it matters a lot to me. Yeah. And it's really cool that it's I just love the idea that there's been a few of these different like formal things around. Yeah. Oh my god. We plan this and then all of a sudden, like two or three like queer proms came around the same time. We're like, oh, geez. But yeah, this one is it's like a queer prom, but it's for the freaks and the punks, freak. So there you go. Nice. Yeah. There's something to be said about adults missing. I feel like we used to do things like back a couple decades ago. Adults actually like. Went out and dressed up and like that. Like a dinner party with your front. Right. It became like going clubbing and like that is not the same thing. And I think there's a real, I don't know, people really want to dress up. I love getting to the vibe. Same. I love dressing up. Right. And a lot of alternative people just don't have anywhere to go. Regardless, and do any of this fun stuff. Yeah, I love putting on my little outfit for a little makeup. Oh my god. It makes me feel like a lot. Yeah, it makes me feel like me. Yeah. And then if you do it and then you show up to a thing and people are like, what are you all dressed up for? Because it's like New England. I'm like, so I look good. Very casual. Yeah. Yeah. And now you can show up in a sundress and be like, oh, yeah, literally. OK, flannel. Yeah. You're literally wearing a flannel. I have two of those. No, it's true, though. Like we very seldom actually dress up here. It's fun. It is. Especially if you're in a band. Put on the cute outfit. I am not ashamed to admit this, though, but like 25 percent of why we do the band is for the outfits. Yeah. Seriously. We love dressing up. I love dressing up. I do love dressing up for sure. Yeah. And like our makeup and stuff is just fun. And Spencer has her own style of lipstick. Yes. Spencer has his signature. And tell them about your mohawk too. I mean, it's a mohawk. I don't know what else. I don't even know what color I'm doing. Yes, for Femme Fast. Rachel has to get back to me about whether my hair can be dyed again or not. Yeah. Shout out Talmo. Shout out Talmo Hair Co. Yeah, where I've been doing all if you've like my hair at all at any point in this band, that's all I do or all I go to is me too. Talmo. So go there. Do you do the full stand up for shows? Oh, yeah. Not every show. She goes and gets it done for special occasions. Oh, yeah, like the big show. You did it for our tour and it stayed the whole tour. We had to like cut her. Lots of hairspray every other show. Do you do it laying down? Not that long yet. I've seen people do that. They just like lay down and spray. And then on the other side and spray. I go and see Bianca for the Mohawk styling at the Talmo and they're like, yeah, if you get much longer, we're going to have you laying down. I'm like, cool. I totally find the lay down for styling. Are you kidding me? That is so funny. Just give me a pillow. I'll be good. Probably fall asleep. That's a lot of work of all the hairstyles, the vertical hairstyles are. Yeah. She doesn't. I have all the power. And an hour just boom knocks it. I don't understand it. And then I talked to them more and she was like, yeah, I just that's what I did. My like cosmetology like like not thesis. I guess the thesis on was Mohawks. Yeah. Yeah, that's really. I really want to do a show once where Spencer has a Mohawk Ray has Liberty Spikes and I have Coke can curlers. We could do that. Just do that. That sounds amazing. Yeah. The aesthetics are so important. It's such a weird thing with bands because the music obviously is the, you know, the music, the message, aesthetics are so cool. Yeah, it's part of the story. It's part of the art. Like that's the thing too. Like I feel a little bit embarrassed to talk about how much I like putting together outfits for shows, but like I feel like the reason why we aren't encouraged to like be proud of that is because it's like a feminine thing. Like, yep. Exactly. You know, like. I will say, I think it's crazy because like growing up, listening to metal. Every one of those dudes. Yeah, literally. Look at this. You tell me they didn't sit down and figure like spend hours figuring this out one day and have a little bit of a little bit of fun. And they got that from us. Like they they stole it from the girls, you know, like they got their whole like little their little outfits and makeups from the girls. So and it was cool when the men did it. And then when we are like proud of putting together our little outfits, they're like, well, it's not really about that. It's about the music. So shut the fuck up. We got Guar out here. And Guar is fucking slipknot. Like you could just and those are just the heavy ones because all of the like the Bowie era. Oh my God. Yeah, which that's power to Bowie. Bowie's special case. Right. But like they all followed that. There was so much eyeliner and they still so many men still wear eyeliner in the rock scene and it's like. D. Snyder. What's that? Twisted sister. Yeah. Yeah. Twisted sister. That's the reason why the runaways, they're like their manager or whatever. Forgot it. Kim Fowley. That's the reason why he like started or tried like got this like girl rock band was because like those artists like David Bowie and Mick Jagger and like these rock stars were so feminine and it just kept like elevating more and more and more and he was like, well, the next the only way to out do it is get actual fucking women to do it. Cheese. Weird. How that happens. That's crazy. It reminds me of how they used to have men play women in like Shakespeare. Yes. Yeah. Because women weren't allowed to perform on stage. Drive. So they'd wear wigs and makeup. Yeah. Dresses. And you know, huh, it's almost like a woman could play this. Yeah. Yeah. Almost. Almost. Exactly. So get ahead of ourselves. Men can do everything. Yeah. God. Except have babies. I think that's what a lot of them should be honest. Well, some can. I'm saying that's true. That's true. Sis. Okay. All right. We are probably rounding the hour mark. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Is there anything else you want to share in terms of messaging shows coming up, stuff we missed if you want to rattle off a link or your link tree link, which isn't link tree. I forget which one it was actually, but. Is it only a piece that you want to talk about? No, I think, I think, well, what I'll say is things are hard right now for trans people and the government. And I want to say I'm very sorry to everybody affected by what's going on right now and also to immigrants in our country and just it's overwhelming to think about. But sometimes people will reach out to us because we try to have an optimistic view and we talk about political things and people will be like, what do I do? And not that we were just like a bunch of little dummies in a band. So it's not that we have like an answer or anything about that. But I will say like, if you're overwhelmed, just like pick a thing and like do what you can for that thing. And then there are other people doing other things that will do what needs to be done for that. But there are a lot of different things to care about right now. And it's don't get overwhelmed by thinking you need to take it all on because like we can all work together if we all choose our own thing and then not get burnt out. Yeah. And so yeah, I'm going to piggyback off that. That's like a really good point. But yeah, like you just don't let yourself get overwhelmed. Definitely stay informed. But like, you know, the doom scrolling is not helpful. That's not being informed. That's just yeah, it's so far. I'm at that. Yeah, and pick a new source. Right. And find community. And if you're upset about issues, then, you know, there are things you can do on a small scale that will actually create change, local politics, people and support local politics and support the fucking library. Yeah. Yeah. God damn that place rocks. Go to school board meetings. Yeah, stand up for trans kids. Like for real vote. This community, Burlington is the place that like really affects all of us. Like our elections matter here a lot. Like we're in Burlington vote for people who represent Burlington. Hello. You know, and also it's just you'll see change. You'll see your impact more and like you'll make things happen more. Just get to know your community. Yeah, just engage with it a little bit more. Even if it's just your part of the community, like going to Fem Fest or just queer shows and have fun nights. Yes, go to Dike night and also remember to have fun. Yeah, don't lose your joy because they want that's exactly what they want. It's for you to be they want you to be mad at everybody and to lose your joy. And they want you to give up. I get joy from seeing Elon Musk crying on his stream. That was so fun. Yeah. You too. Yes, joy. I will find joy in the new. Yeah, I'm joyful for it because that was fucking awesome. I'm listening to it again. Twenty six. Is it dropping on Bandcamp Spotify? It will be on Bandcamp and every streaming platform. That you can confirm. Burlington is on YouTube music because that's what I use. Yes. Yes. If I was on Bandcamp. Yeah. Bandcamp is cute. Yes. Well, it's also yeah, if you're going to buy it too, if you can't get a physical. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, we're going to have a physical CD. CD. Yes. Nice. I'm excited for the next zine as well because I said that's where I found your zine was on Bandcamp. New shirts, new guitar picks. Yeah, we have lots of new picks. They're not like that different, but there's more. Okay. What? Rocky Horror Pictures. Yeah, the Rocky Horror Pictures Sofont. Yes. Yeah. Cool. Come to Fan Fest. Yeah. Be in your community. And remember to have fun. Start a band. And yo, start a band. It's not hard. I go to the goddamn library and read a book. Jesus Christ. Read any book. Please. They're good. They're good. They're TV for your haves. Books are good. Yeah. You can read Smud. Books are good. Ethical porn. It all comes back around. Okay. Sorry. Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you all so much for being on the show today. This was the 55th episode of Vermont Talks. So the show notes with all of your links and links to the merch and links to the Fan Fest event and links to all of these things, including PUS EP on the 26th, are going to be at VermontTalks.com forward slash 55. Thank you so much, Burley Girls. This was fun. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the end of the show. Subscribe to VermontTalks on your favorite podcasting platform. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all over the web. Contact Becca at VermontTalks.com if you'd like to be interviewed or if you know someone who should be. Thanks so much to Jason Baker for creating the show music. The views and opinions expressed by the guests are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of VermontTalks. Any content or statements provided by our guest are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, anyone or anything. And that's what was new in the 802. Have a great day.